Transcription:
Chip Barnett: (
Hello, and welcome to another bond buyer podcast. My guest today is Laura Rabinow. She's the Rockefeller Institute of Government's Deputy Director of Research. And what we're gonna be talking about is the upcoming $4 billion New York state environmental bond referendum. Welcome to the bond buyer, Laura.
Laura Rabinow: (
Thank you so much for having me,
Chip Barnett: (
You know, the $4 billion bond referendum called the clean water, clean air and green jobs, environmental bond act of 2022 is gonna be on this November's ballot. Can you talk a bit about what this bond will fund?
Laura Rabinow: (
Sure. It'll do a
Chip Barnett: (
Can you give us some background on how this bond referendum came to be on the in November?
Laura Rabinow: (
Sure. So I'm gonna go back a little bit in order to go forward. We did have a, a referendum that we might have seen come forward. In 2014 there was a legislative proposal for a $5 billion bond act at that time. However, it never made it to the public ballot because there was another bond act that same year and only one is allowed to be put up to public referendum. The governor's support went towards the school technology bond act at that time. And so we didn't get a chance to vote on it as residents of New York state. However, former governor Cuomo then proposed in 2020, another bond act that time for $3 billion named the restore nature bond act that made it through the legislative process and was set to be voted on in New York in the fall of 2020, but amidst the pandemic.
Laura Rabinow: (
It was delayed. And so we then saw it revived earlier this year by Governor Hochul through the budget process. And so she put forward a $4 billion proposal and then we saw both of our legislative houses, the Assembly and the Senate respectively put in $5 billion and $6 billion proposals. So everybody's on board to move this forward with slightly different versions of what they think should happen, right. Through the budget process this year, which wraps up in early April, we end up with this $4 billion, to be a little more specific $4.2 billion bond act that you noted at the beginning. And if that'll cover all of those things that I just mentioned it, as opposed to some of the, the earlier versions that the governor's original version puts a little more funding towards climate change projects. So that's a little bit about how we got here.
Chip Barnett: (
Can you talk a little bit about the history of other bond referendums in New York State and, and what did those bond issues do?
Laura Rabinow: (
Sure. So there have been a number of bond acts in New York state over the last century or so about 10 that we know of, although there may be more since the beginning of the 20th century, previous bond acts have been pretty inconsistent over time, I would say, so we'll get a few bond acts and then go long periods of time without any, and then we'll see a few more emerge. And those tend to though don't exactly follow the kind of emergence of different waves of environmentalism in the United States and within New York state as well. So some of the earliest environmental bonds that we saw in New York emerge alongside early conservation movement efforts in around the turn of the 20th century. We see that kind of funding certainly much smaller amounts than we're talking about today. But going towards land preservation and conservation efforts and creation of state and park system, which is just happening at that time under our state agencies, which are starting to form.
Laura Rabinow: (
All at the same time. So that's the beginning of environmental context in New York. We then see this kind of, as I noted long period where we don't have any until the 1960s and seventies, when we see the modern environmental movement kinda surface, and then we get five bond acts, which a 12 year period of time between 1960 and 1972. So a lot of hurry up and wait, and across time here. Those bond acts really reflected a lot of concerns emerging around pollution, water, and air quality at that time. And they are at least two of those five in 1965 bond act. And the 1972 bond act. They really represent our largest investments in environmental projects and infrastructure over time through bonding in New York state. So in adjusted 2020 respectively, the 1965 and 1972 bond act allocated $8.2 and $7.1 billion, that gives us some context for understanding where the current $4.2 billion proposal lies.
Laura Rabinow: (
It's it's far from the smallest, but it's also not the largest of the bonds that we've seen pass in New York. Those bond acts addressed a number of different issues, but a lot of that funding went towards the creation of waste water infrastructure systems across New York. So we have had, and still have a lot of aging infrastructure in our waste water systems that has meant that we have a lot of combined sewer systems and systems that were set up that are not just in need of repair because of deferred maintenance, but just weren't meant to handle the kind of size of municipalities that we have today. And so you end up with a lot of pollutants from our wastewater system ending up in our water ways, right? Our rivers, our streams, and, and sometimes even affecting our source water, drinking water. And so those investments were tremendously important to municipalities across the state in order to protect water, both drinking water, and our waterway, then moving outta the sixties and seventies.
Laura Rabinow: (
We again see a long period in which we do not have any, uh, environmental bond act until 1986 and then 1996. So some gaps there in 1986, again, we see a lot of concerns, mirroring federal concerns around hazardous waste, and again, in six concerns around the sighting of waste, clean air, clean water as well. So the that's kind of how we dealt with environmental programs and projects through environmental bond act over time in New York, it again has been inconsistent. And so we haven't had an environmental bond in the state in over years now since 1990, that's a pretty significant gap. Uh, so we can think about the amount of money, uh, in part in relationship to the amount of time that it's been since our, our previous investments in these types of projects and infrastructure.
Chip Barnett: (
Could you describe some of the things that previous bond issues have done, you know, things like creating state parks or addressing pollution and water quality?
Laura Rabinow: (
Sure. So I mentioned some of those in my previous remarks, but when we look at some of the earliest bond acts in 1910, 1916 and 1924, all of those are for land acquisition and the establishment of, of our state park systems. It's just at that time that we're seeing a lot of private donations of land coming into the state. Those are initially individually kind of managed through ports that gets bureaucratic cumbersome. And so we try to unify that under a council of parks, which later becomes our office of parks, recreation, and historic preservation in New York. And in doing all of that, um, we need some way to a right acquire, further lands to be protected under our forest preserves and parks in New York state, we have an extensive state park system, as well as the entire Aron deck park, which is protected land with the, a lot of the funding from those acts collectively, I think $2.5 million, $10 million and $15 million went towards that land acquisition and the initial kind administration.
Laura Rabinow: (
So to speak of environmental bonds in the 1960s and seventies, a lot of those are going towards water water infrastructure, pollution issues. And so we'll see the implementation of water treatment systems. We noted in our research, for example, the establishment of the bird island wastewater treatment plant, which serves all of Buffalo, uh, fairly large water treatment system for around for hundreds of thousands of people in the Niagara area, that treatment system was really put in place in order to make sure that all of that waste water wasn't being diverted. Um, at times where it was its capacity was tested into the Niagara river, impacting the river and larger ecosystem around there. So a lot of municipal waste water systems were put in place through that funding really, really important work. Then when we move into the 1986 and 1996, uh, pieces, we really see this as a reaction to the environmental health and environmental justice movements.
Laura Rabinow: (
And so that fund particularly in 1986, helps us set up a lot of our hazardous waste programs and our remedial fund, our state super fund program, really key and landmark, uh, pieces of, of legislation that required funding in order to work. And finally, in 1996, we see things like the establishment of brownfield remediation projects. So you get the first project in the scenic Hudson park in Irving New York, but you also continue to get a lot of clean water and safe drinking water projects as the bulk of really where those funds are going across the state in municipalities.
Chip Barnett: (
You know, it's been more than 25 years since the last bond act this past what's changed in the past quarter century. What do you think is needed now?
Laura Rabinow: (
So a lot has and hasn't changed. We still have tremendous infrastructure issues. We have continued to, to needed to repair. And a lot of that need to repair and expand has been deferred in 2008 New York State's Department of Environmental Conservation and Department of Health estimated a total need of a nearly $80 billion of investment in our water and wastewater infrastructure over the following 20 years. We're, we're now, you know, 15 years into that period. And in the last few years, we've begun to make some more investments in that infrastructure, but we still have a long way to go. And so part of this funding will help us make a more significant contribution to those needs in communities all across the state. In addition to that, I think more broadly within New York State, within the United States and, uh, across the globe, we're having a conversation about the impacts of climate change, our need to invest in, in systems and in infrastructure that help our communities be resilient.
Laura Rabinow: (
And that helped them mitigate the impacts of climate change and do what we can to reduce our, our carbon emissions as a whole. And so this one now really reflects I think, a new sense of attention to that challenge and to those needs. And, and that's why it is the largest portion of funding in this bond act. So it will go towards addressing those kind of longstanding needs that we've over the last 20 years, but it it'll also go towards some needs that were just starting to, to fully recognize and try to address the challenges of with respect to climate change.
Chip Barnett: (
Has the COVID pandemic changed the dynamic? Is there anything different about this bond issue?
Laura Rabinow: (
You know, I don't know if the pandemic has impacted the dynamic here. What I might say is that through the pandemic, we have seen how its impacts have been unevenly felt across, across people in our, that recognition along with, within our recognition of climate change. And the kinda uneven impacts there has really meant that our attention is, is more greatly focused on issues of justice within our environmental funding. And I would say that that's reflected within this particular bond act with respect to the allocation of 35% of the funds going towards what in New York State deem are disadvantaged communities to make sure that these funds are really being directed towards the communities that need the most, and that have historically borne the burdens of environmental harms and climate change more than others.
Chip Barnett: (
Do you have any last thoughts for our listeners today?
Laura Rabinow: (
You know, I would say that over time, what we see across all of these environmental bond acts is generally broad support from residents. So I think it, it's less a question of whether or not this bond act is likely pass, I could say that it's likely. What what's more interesting now is to think about for each of our communities? What will this money go towards? Because it will be spread vastly across the entire state. So how can we engage our own local leaders about how we wanna see this money used? How can we engage our environmental and health agencies and authorities about how this money is used and what are the kind of impacts that we wanna see moving forward.
Chip Barnett: (
Laura Rabinow of the Rockefeller Institute, thank you very much for being here with us today.
Laura Rabinow: (
Thank you so much. I appreciate the conversation and we look forward to seeing how the vote plays out this.
Chip Barnett: (
Thank you to the listeners of this latest Bond Buyer podcast. Special thanks to Kellie Malone, who did the audio production for this episode. And don't forget to rate us, review us and subscribe www.bondbuyer.com/subscribe. For the Bond Buyer, I'm Chip Barnett.